Reading the clerisc post of Belly’s from another thread and the current Paladin/Priest debate that is currently warring on the Cleric board I felt it necessary to create a thread to weigh in on the subject.
I personally love cleric and hate it at the same time. The start-up necessary to really get cleric going without taking a hit to devotion is longer than 3 hours, the time most normal people have to play now. Cleric is one of the best exploring classes and curerntly, even with the vault, is greatly hampered. Ok enough of the soapbox, let’s see if I have some answers that don’t greatly increase the power of clerics but help them become a more active part of Moral Decay again.
Group Prayers:
Yes there are some that are specifrically group prayers and others tat affect the entire room but there need to be more. Cleric is the ultimate party member and more of their spells shoudl be catered to the group. Group heal (exists), group bless(exists through item), group protection, group wings(idea), group poison cure(idea), group that Shroud weapon thingee(idea).
Gods/Godesses:
I love the idea of the pantheon of gods and godesses but give me a break there are some weak ass gods out there! God of peace needs to be slapped outta the picture. He is the most worthless god I have ever seen. It should be Ledah vs. Shroud and Moira vs. Antiu. Conversely there need to more relationships between the God prayers. I love the twist that exists between Moira and Ledah...I haven’t played with too many of the others beyond player testing years ago. And for God’s sake the trickster switching from boot to boot drives me crazy. I only get so much time to play and then I get squashed.
Ok I am at work so I gotta run...more cleric ranting later.
maybe make the choice of god more than just some stupid devotion, make it a path. At classing i get all the gods to try out as i like, but when i hit 12 i have to choose a god to follow and be their champion. Unique powers and skills go along with that choice as well as being called up to perform sacrifices and tasks for said god.
Well after reading my initial post and seeing the typos and other errors...I am still not going to proof or spell check this one. You must translate my typing as you have gotten used to doing over the years. I could type in a word processor, edit, then post but that would make too much sense.
Devotion vexes me because no other skill has a usage countdown over time. The amount of prayers that it takes to get devotion up to an appreciable level and then the subsequent numbers of spells that must be maintained over time to keep it at that level is very very difficult. I agree that it should be difficult and no one should have 3 gods at avatar but having 2 gods at a high level when they are complimentary gods should be doable. (Once again, I have a Moira cleric and maybe she just isn’t one of the gods that it is very easy to have more than one god with)
I propose that clerics be more like the mages’ school where you can buy prayers for complimentary gods based on intelligence and more so wisdom since that is a cleric’s main stat. Devotion would be a factor still but would be cumulative with no time factor. The only thing that would adversely affect your devotion would be casting prayers from a competing god. And the attempt to pray to another god would be at a great cost to your mana and possibly health.
Along with the devotion change would be a great benefit from divine intervention. This is the single most powerful prayer for clerics and from my understanding it has no bearing on devotion!!! What shows more devotion to your god or goddess than your belief that he or she will actually intervene on your behalf on the physical plane? DI should have major bearing on your devotion.
Ok, I lied and put it in word processor….but who knows if that even helped my spelling and sentence structure.
Next Chapter: Possible Prayers Dispersal
(Details are not my forte and I am not sure if I will have the time, so this may never happen….)
I havent played my cleric in ages.. because of fear of devotion dropping. devotion sucks, but it is also why clerics are better then fighters.. because they have to put up with that devotion BS. but I understand its getting a bit out of control. my idea is to have devotion based on small quests and tasks your god requires you to do.. like
Shroud demands you to turn 5 undeads (or maybe base it on a total exp amount)
Ledah request you heal x amount of people
Antiu requires you to destroy the statue of peace
Moira wants you to .. i dont know, dance a crazy jig heh.
but you get the idea.. have like 5-10 different tasks for the different gods that will pop up randomly while you are playing.. and by completing the tasks, keeps your god happy.. Also, beable to go to the cleric guild and pray there for a mission to show your loyalty if your devotion is lacking.. have thos a bit harder then the random tasks.
this way, you still have to work at being a cleric, but dont have to spend every drop of mana you have for the whole time you are playing, then log off real quick before your devotion drops.
I thought about requiring items for prayers.. like a cross and some beads for bless.. cross and holy water for turn.. ect.. maybe for mage too.. needing special items to cast strong spells/prayers.. or could make is similar to druids herbs.. you could even make another player based guild that uses metal to make these items for mages/clerics.. but as i pondered this.. seems more trouble then worth.. but an idea no less
I don’t see clerics moving in the direction of druids in needing materials to pray and there are some things out there that give you a Wis boost....in effect boostign your prayer. A few items need to cast some special prayers though would be cool. Possibly somethign to bring warring God’s together if you had posession of it. Not sure if that is really codable though.
not so much like druids but maybe more towards a real cleric?
Allow for the use of items, like holy water and such to enhance spells but lets add something a bit more realistic. Conversion. The cleric, being the physical representative of their chosen god goes around and trys to convert NPCs into being believers in that god. Lets say i head over to candera and convert a few of the dancers in Gastons. They’re low to midbie level and i convert them to Moira, the conversion lasts for X minutes based on my skills and level and the Dancers level and hp effects how much devotion i get back. And i only gain devotion from that dancer for the length of time they’re converted and so long as they stay alive..
Plus what about allowing sacrifices of money or items to the gods? Moira is a trickster, what if i pulled a few tricks off? wouldn’t that make her happy and increase my favor with her?
Ok I have taken some time and come up with some incomplete thoughts on a total revamp of clerics. I was thinkign too small and it is time to think bigger. I have borrowed some from the present, some from the ideas of others, and some from my own head....read the next post (that is if I can get it all in one post) for my ideas.
Life (Priest) – Healing
Bless – The bless would focus more on wisdom, intelligence and charisma. 1/3 the amount of the total bless would be applied to the physical statistics.
Healing – good old fashioned strong healing
Greater Healing – This can be attuned to a single person or an entire room.
Detect Alignment
Remove Poison
Remove Curse
Light
Blinding Light – Calls upon their lord for light. Has the chance to blind opponent for a length of time. Also may have a harmful effect on undeads.
Angels of Healing – These would be peaceful little Angels that would not attack the foe but would come and heal and give you mana. They would take some hits for you but no offense. Strength depends on level and wisdom.
Resurrect – I really liked this from Malal’s suggestion.
Holy Word – Would act like turn today. You would read “scripture†from your prayer book to banish the undead. The Priest would have the greatest damage against undead.
Blessed Hammer – Oh yeah the big bad hammer makes a comeback maybe with a burn, stun, or physical attack special
Restricted to praying only when somewhat drunk
Restricted to blunt weapons
Abilities affected by alignment…the more positively aligned get a boost to prayers.
Peace (Friar) – Protection
Bless – The bless would focus more on Dexterity, Constitution and Wisdom. 1/3 the amount of the total bless would be applied to the other statistics.
Healing – Not quite as strong as the Priest.
Remove Curse
Detect Alignment
Light
Angels of Peace – These would be peaceful little Angels that would have very little attacking power but much more HP to take more hits. Strength depends on level and wisdom.
Sanctuary – Create and brief 3-4 round respite in action where the cleric can flee, heal, drink or whatever.
Protection – like current protection but can be attuned from good or evil…if you choose the right alignment then you get a very slight rebound
Right Hand of God – Imbues the Friars hands with the power of God greatly improving WC and ability to hit.more often
Holy Word – lesser extent that the priest.
Meditate – Have to meditate to regain health and mana
No Alcohol
Restricted to NO WEAPONS
No Armor Restrictions
War (Paladin) – Offense
Bless – The bless would focus more on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. 1/3 the amount of the total bless would be applied to the other stats.
Field Dressing – A very low heal.
Remove Curse
Light
Detect Alignment
Shield – Much like Moira’s Shield might have a little rebound to it or chance for a bashing stun.
Locate – They must have locate because they are the one’s hunting for the lord
Aura of War – we all know this one
Angels of War – These are not peaceful little angels. These are seraphim, cherubim, and arch angels coming to assist in the melee. Strength and number depend on level, wisdom, and possibly how many things you are fighting at once.
Cleansing Fire – Imbues his weapon with the power of the lord to cleanse the land of infidels. Has a chance to burn. Weapon will be glowed. Greater damage to undeads.
Blessed Weapon – They can call an array of “Blessed Weaponsâ€. The weapon could be either one or two-handed depending on the Paladin’s preference.
Convert – These are vigilant warriors of the lord. They want to convert you to follow their path. Works like old subdue. Max 2 followers at one time. May have to have a skill that helps you maintain their conversion.
Preach – Helps maintain converts.
No sobriety prayer restriction.
No weapon restrictions.
No armor Restrictions.
I was thinking the same, but with a cleric of death too.. being able to pray for things like
Midnight (blinds)
cause wounds (like cure wounds.. but *gasp* causes them)
harm (like heal, but you get the picture, loss 1/3 hp of the target)
hell here are the spell list
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Cleric_Spell_List
it might be to close to necro as a evil cleric, but they also (the very powerful clerics) can instead of turn undead, control/command undead that they come across.. would be something similar to subdue id think.. an army of really weak undead or 1 strong undead
I am not opposed to the Dark Cleric line...I think thaqt the Dark Cleric is one of the best role-played clerics on the game.
I think with the necro class and if they chose to make changes to that class then a Dark Cleric of the kind you are describing would more belong there.
Ok I have been thinking… A dangerous occupation for me i know.
If I were to pray and then idle my cleric for hours upon hours would all my devotiosn slowly return to center?
Has anyone tried thsi method. I am thinking of switching schools and was wondering how to do it effectively. Well with teh least amount of effort from me. Figured once I id that I could work my way back up to whatevergod i wanted to. I ask this because the god’s I am thinking of switchign to I have extremyl on the wrong devotional side.
PS: any cleric recode talk or action goign on. With bell with teh kids for the next few weeks I am guessign no.
