Barbarians were obviously created to be the most offensive (pun intended) class on MD.  Somewhere along the line, this was lost.  Barbarians wear the least armor in the game (they cannot temporarily increase AC like monks) and their actions are severely limited while berzerking, which is arguably their primary skill.  Their hits, in part because they wield one-handed weapons, are nearly negligible against an armored foe.  I find monks, fighters, and cleric to all have comparable, if not superior offense to barbarians.  Any thoughts?

I would have to agree with you and this factor is the main reason that I do not play Heimdall that much.  The offense of a barb pales in comparison to that of a Monk and the amount of “defense” that a monk can achieve far puts this out of balance. And I watched a fighter for a bit the other day and was astounded with the offense and all the armour.

You are right in saying that a Barb’s “big boy” skill is berzerk but it is almost too dangerous to use with the restrictions in place and the lack of defense that a Barb has.  In order to be able to use berzerk a barb has to either very very stacked with healing items, alc, and jerky or be in a party that could at least absorb some of the attacks coming his way.

Another thing is the skills you can achieve for off-hand fighting.  I was surprised at that one because that is such a barbarian specific trait or just luck.  I am not sure what percentage it actually adds or if one can get to the ambi or near ambi level but it does infringe on the barb skills pretty heavily.

Can barbarians still be played as a class and am I too lazy to figure out how to do it successfully again...probably yes.  I certainly don’t want to see monks or fighters limited.  Barbarians still are effective for firepower just not as dominating for the ac loss as they used to be.  I might ned to put the cleric down and compare the difference at this point since they are pretty even in level.

For Barb I think some additions or changes that could be made simply would be (and trust me I have no and I mean no idea ow these things stack up to other classes presently) would be:

Increase a barb’s natural hit percentage or “hit roll”
Increase a barb’s natural AC (I know we have more limb hp and overall hp but I was thinking of the not getting hit factor)
Make a headbutt skill (I just loved that skill so much!)
Increase the HP’s available to a barb’s head (Hey it supposed to be a rock, let’s make it one and it goes with teh headbutt skill since you take damage to the head)

The changes to barbs with bonfire and blood have been great and maybe I just need to shut up play the barb more and see what’s for what.  Thinking about it increasing the hit %, that is what blood does....

A stupid barb’s 2 cents

Malal - 04 April 2008 04:40 AM

Their hits, in part because they wield one-handed weapons, are nearly negligible against an armored foe.

This is one of the reasons why I always liked to get the Soul Cleaver on my barb - I always liked the extra damage done by the fire special.  When faced with a well equipped foe, the extra damage was always welcome.

After some discussion, all are in agreement that the two-weapon fighting askill takes away from the barbarian class skill of ambidexterity.  How do we compensate?  What came to mind during the discussion, based on how the god weapons work for barbs, was allowing them to wield two-handed weapons in one hand, based on an askill similar to increased weapon use for necro/druid/mage.  As the skill increases, the higher the wc you can wield with one hand.

maybe add in weaker specials comparable with god weaps too?
but i really want a barb skill that grants like critical damage or a chance to hit way harder
after a certain level.. like lvl 18 everytime a barb hits hard it gets increased by like 1 level?
so umm if a barb hits hard it becomes very hard? then at like lvl 24 it becomes increased to 2 levels
or something like?

iono i feel barbs dont hit hard enough.. but then again people tell me its just coz my str is only at superb.. but even after raising it to incred it doesnt seem to make much of a difference

One thing I always thought about was that barbarians ought to be intimidating.  So maybe they had some kind of “roar” or “warcry” which had a chance to stun an emeny for a few rounds?  Perhaps it could only be used as a combat opener or something, rather than having a party of barbs keeping a mob permanently stunned by spamming warcry.

And headbutts, shoulder charges, kicks to groin etc. (by a barb, not on me!) would be fun too.

Tyrande, youre right.

As old and tired as I am, and as cheap as I can be, squeaking while I walk,

Cant beat em, join em, I say.

Make an aristo of every class, and whichever one(s) are in power at the moment, play that class to the fullest.

I have a level 19 barb, but Ill never play him again until they become overpowered. So screw the rest of the barb class. Its funny though; if you type <check classlist> at their respective halls, barb, monk, (I havent seen fighter in forever), cleric, and mage all have super high level players you’d have to surpass to even come close to its top 10.

Thief, druid, necromancer dont have nearly as much level 20+ on theirs.

In short:

Go with the flow, roll wit da punches.

I’ll agree in that Barbarians do not seem to be as offensive as they used to be....before aristo recode, and more important possibly before combat recode, Rager I could use against multiple moat monsters and kill them all in one zerk....Now having more stats, and a lot of aristo skills, if I’ll kill one, and that seems to take most of the zerk. 

For those who are going to ask:
1.  I’m using the same weapons, god weapons, since the damn things don’t break.
2.  The change to god weapons had happened long before the recodes (yes there was a change), and it wasn’t significantly compareable to recodes. 
3.  Myself and other high level barbs, have discussed these observations before aristo recode but after combat recode, and again after aristo recode. 

Fighters I see posting on thier board all the time about too little offense...I’ve seen some fighters out kill my barb since all these changes have gone in.  Total xp for a boot was about the same.  Now a barb was coded with the idea that they would die more often but have the offense to make up for it....well a fighter starts with a store bought helm that is 4 times the ac of a barbs, and if they are able to make the same or more xp in a boot, with much lower risk of death then a barb, I have to ask how the idea of increased offense is showing up.

Do barbs hit a lot, without a doubt yes.  Take a look at most of those hits though....inc or extreme hits are very far and few between. 

It’s been said before, but Berzerk handicaps a barb as much as it helps.  You get increased offense, but the inability to move to flee...And u better realize that u move sometimes in combat before u zerk next door to the kraken...Last time I tried certain healing items don’t work for a barbarian during zerk either. 

Reduction in the severity of the jerky NERF has helped with survivability of the barb during combat.  However I’m already ambidextrous, and while the defensive aristo skills have helped, there is not much of an increase to my offense. 

I realize that a lot of interest is being placed on clerics (and what a headache devotion has been for players and wizards).  And given current activity levels of wizards (hell players too) I’m not certain when or if this can be given any consideration.  I’m also not certain really where an adjustment could be made that might help with this.  But I felt that the issue (which I have mentioned to some) might as well be placed out on the table to be examined when time permits.

Fighters have a level 19 at the 18 slot, but you have to be getting close to a spot on the alist to have a chance at making the top 10 fighter

Rager - 12 April 2008 06:14 AM

I’ll agree in that Barbarians do not seem to be as offensive as they used to be....

Do barbs hit a lot, without a doubt yes.  Take a look at most of those hits though....inc or extreme hits are very far and few between. 

Last time I tried certain healing items don’t work for a barbarian during zerk either. 

I realize that a lot of interest is being placed on clerics (and what a headache devotion has been for players and wizards).  And given current activity levels of wizards (hell players too) I’m not certain when or if this can be given any consideration.  I’m also not certain really where an adjustment could be made that might help with this.  But I felt that the issue (which I have mentioned to some) might as well be placed out on the table to be examined when time permits.

Preach it brother Rager,

I couldnt have said it any better myself.  Although I will say, sure there is interest in clerics/devotion, but fixing the druid class should have higher priority. I dont see Goliath or Malal crying about the 200k xp boot they make, or the ability to kill ANYTHING on the mud with their clerics. Boot rush the Kraken? Chancel? GRLR? No problem! SHRANTIU BABY!

You have a druid yourself-- one which you never play anymore, ergo, me and my barb. I concur.

Barbs suck.

Dont hate the player...hate the code!

I understand where your coming from with druids, they are simply to random, and the absolute best boots I’ve played is because there are multiple druids playing.  Enhance shrine seems to pay off when there are about 4 or 5 druids doing it.  At that point u see much more powerful summons. 

Using the max # of white lotuses, and items to increase summoning help to an extent, but i’ve found the best return on those items is after the shrine has been enhanced several times.

I realize Abbot has coded some new higher end summons, even some aristo only summons, in an attempt to move the summoning bell curve towards more good summons.  However it is still a very random class.  I’m quite willing to put effort into a class to get the most out of it that I can...But the general randomness and penalties from summons getting the kill make druid less then appealing for me to play. 

For those who enjoy playing the druid class my hat is off to you…

I spoke with Abbot a while back about this…

How come you cannot type ‘i’ for inventory while in zerk?

Seriously, is this a major oversight?

Also. There is no bhelp gluttony file (yet.)

I know it exists on the board, but shouldn’t it have a help file reading?

ME MAD!

I was lookin at that to Spence, never having a Barb before a help file would be nice.  My little guy is doing pretty well, but doesnt zerk yet so the whole jerky nerf hasnt effected him nor will i ever truly know how it effected barbs.. as for the loss in power..  i dont know much about that and really havent seen a barb play since they were the powerhouses they used to be.