I agree that the the smith and smelters have to be hurting and some of that is based on the payout as well.  I almsot never smelt unless i am runnign the barb caves or have some high value metals that I can pick up.  The vault ahs to have some effect on the high cost items bought at a store such as weps or high ac armour.  Those are the first thign I vault b/c of cost. 

I think the lowering of weght of storebought eq or eq in general would be a benefit to smelters and armoursniths b/c the biggest impediment to smelting is weight and ability to pick of the smeltable items.

Just the opinion of a lazy, non-smelting, no idea the economics behind this aspect of the game player.

guild members of smelters and smiths alike used to do metal runs all the time becuase stock was in high demand.. but now, for the amount of people playing i am getting alot of the busness for what I sell.. but I just dont sell nearly as much, for whatever reason, i havent done a metal run in forever (solo atleast) mostly becuase i rarly need metal anymore. not becuaes im lazy heh

I’m all for further reduction in weight of metals as well.  I know there’s been some reduction made already but I haven’t made a new character in a while to see how much the lower metals were reduced.  I have noticed that my lvl 19 cleric (unblessed) can wear a full set with weapon and am just barely able to pick up loot. Whereas before, I couldn’t pick up anything at all.  I’m not exactly sure how races work or have time to test it out… does a lvl 19 ogre have a higher carrying capacity than a lvl 19 half-elf with same stats?

smelters - not enough demand for their goods.  Solution: increase demand.
Smiths - demand not high enough, plus limited variety they can carry due to slots and large variety of weapons

General Solution:  Increase consumption of Smelter stock in other avenues, either thru other consumables like wagon production.  Increase demand for smithed items by allowing for customized weapons to be made easier or additional bonuses to said items.

Heres an additional item, you could give smiths the ability to repair an item or make it a player learnable skill where they need raw materials from a smelter.  Or let smiths buy a NPC that sits in their shop and will resize an item for the buyer? Including weapons, resizing them to highest WC the player can wield?

The wizards add guild types to increase fun and playability of the game, Did we really need to add banks? we only have 3 and is it really a necessity?  I’m sure if they put in chef/cook we’d have two or three pop up and replace the npc ones.  Is it part of this discussion? no, but if making cooks a player guild then corpses will become more valuable and processing will go up, people running corpses may be more inclined to smelt more too.  And they’d have more money to spend on really cool storebought stuff.

Increasing smiths need for metal with help out smelters a ton. 

With my idea about smelters and processers selling stock, a player skill to repair weapons/armor and/or resize would be workable. Id assume fighters would get that skill. (another fighter skill) I also thought about a skill that adds specials to store bought weapons, like sharpen makes a blade weapon cause bleeding, or a weighted stone on a blunt weapon would cause stun effect.. and when added to a weapon (mostly store bought and non magical/special weapons) will wear out the weapon some when added, and have the weapon break faster. I know, as a fighter scraping for any extra offense i can get, i would buy 4-5 storeboughts if the special worked well enough.  Also, reinforce, just like barbs but with metal armor.

I think a skill added for fighters to repair/resize/reinforce/sharpen with metal AND enabling smiths guilds to repair weapons and armor (and reinforce/sharpen) for a price and metal is a great idea. Fighters (with the auto sell idea for smelters) could buy stock from a smelter to repair/resize and armors already have stock.. just need a way to set a repair price for each type of metal.

sounds like it might be a little tricky to code, but good ideas none the less.

and also letting smiths reduce weight and add wc/ac and even special effects at the cost of more metal and specialy smelted metal (like letting smelters mix 2-3 types of metal to make special effects)

The fighter ability to repair and resize armor sounds great!  If smelters could autoselll or players could buy from them it would be great.  From a wiz point of view this also would help with all the “extra silver” they say the game has now.  I would like to see this extra silver because I don’t have it!

Another idea might be to get rid of SOME of the metals in the metal LIST…

0). Steel 0.0
1). Leather 0.1
2). Iron 0.0
3). Silver 0.0
4). Wood 0.1
5). Bronze 0.1
6). Copper 0.1
7). Mithril 0.5
8). Platinum 0.2
9). Adamantite 0.5
10). Gold 0.1
11). Electrum 0.1
12). Cloth 0.1

Really-- is there a need for 12 TYPES of metal? Im too lazy to type, but you get the picture. Electrum, Bronze, Copper, some of the metals could be eliminated, thus, making it where armor is available for all classes. Make NPC armor JUNK (except special armor) where they break fast-- for tightwad thieves like me who would wear only NPC armor, make me RE-BUY armor from armorers.

THIEF/NECRO = steel, iron

MONK = cloth

DRUID = wood, (barb fire = sell lots to barbs?)

Bring back MASKS into the game. Even for monks. Why not? the GLANCE command has changed. Hell, even sometimes, I see a mage trancing in the lounge with his robe ON, and I still see the full line:

Grandpa Simpson has small nuts, he cant trip period!

you get the idea. also this idea has been re-discussed, but make armor lighter as well. I know about ENCUMBRANCE. Im sure the wizhood doesnt want us to carry the world like monks and mages, but thus, the melee pay off- you dont get hit when youre a tank like a cleric or fighter.

As for weapons, same thing. Eliminate copper, bronze, make NPC weapons last NOT AS LONG, (except for special weapons, and blunt weapons), tweak the NPCs that can FIX armor and weapons to include all types of materials, man-made or non,

And lastly, once again, take out the damn VAULT and the MAGE SPELL PROTECT.

make masks and masking your identity two different things.  The first time i see you in a mask and i identify you i’m gonna know its you the next time i see you unless you’re wearing a different mask.

But you could set it so you are always ‘male dwarf’ when wearing any kind of concealment (masks, cloak, etc).

Don’t take out the vault.  Yes the vault has an effect on the economy but the reason the vautl exists is because the player base isn’t all 18-22 year old college students that can play an 8 hour boot anymore.  The vault allows our changed played base to play for the more typical 1-3 hours without feeling that their time is wasted.  The vault has been one of the major reasons that I am now able to play MD without feeling that my time is useless b/c the first 2 hours are spent getting eq.  I still spend 2-3k on armor or weapons because what I can’t always vault a ton of armro or weapons. 

My two cents…

some of the ideas here touch on something I proposed a few years backso i’ll revamp my proposal to include a few of the ideas I thought were pretty good.

I will also comments on a few other things that caught my eye.

newbie gear - not sure when the time any of you played newbie but a change in the gear was made a few years ago where it is basically crap after level 3.  Every level you go up it gets worse and pretty much forces you to learn where the armour guilds are so you can get better equip.

Mid Level armour at guilds- outside of some medium chainmail, I could find none when i browed quickly through the other day, granted there maybe some guilds I didn’t go to or new ones that popped up I don;t know about, but this has been a huge problem in the last few years.  There is either Ac or 3, or AC 8 or9.  Nothing in the middle.  The same could be for weps, but I didn’t check the guilds for that so I have no comment other than I have no comment

Materials - I agree, 12 is way too much.  we could elimante Bronze, electrum and platinum and still have too many, but going from 12 - 9 would be a benifit for my next point.

Alloys - Bring alloys into the game.  have it so AC7 can only be made with Mith and Adam, but AC 8 can be an alloy of Mith and Copper and AC 9 an alloy of Adam and Iron.  For all you metalurgists (or however its spelt) yes, these aloys may not be accurate but you see my point.  For mid level AC 4 is pure steel, AC 5 is Steel\Gold and AC 6 could be Gold\silver with steel. (I would like see gold gone from materialsas well, but it’s shiney)

going from 12-9 materials, and introducing alloys would use up a lot more of the lower end stuff making it more valuable in the long run.

I also liked the idea of smleters selling to cities for guards and what not, but I think the restriction should be that the smelter needs to be in that city to sell to it.

anyway, my 2 Canadian cents which isworth more now than it has been in a while

Tarmon - 31 March 2008 07:56 AM

some of the ideas here touch on something I proposed a few years backso i’ll revamp my proposal to include a few of the ideas I thought were pretty good.

I will also comments on a few other things that caught my eye.

newbie gear - not sure when the time any of you played newbie but a change in the gear was made a few years ago where it is basically crap after level 3.  Every level you go up it gets worse and pretty much forces you to learn where the armour guilds are so you can get better equip.

Mid Level armour at guilds- outside of some medium chainmail, I could find none when i browed quickly through the other day, granted there maybe some guilds I didn’t go to or new ones that popped up I don;t know about, but this has been a huge problem in the last few years.  There is either Ac or 3, or AC 8 or9.  Nothing in the middle.  The same could be for weps, but I didn’t check the guilds for that so I have no comment other than I have no comment

Materials - I agree, 12 is way too much.  we could elimante Bronze, electrum and platinum and still have too many, but going from 12 - 9 would be a benifit for my next point.

Alloys - Bring alloys into the game.  have it so AC7 can only be made with Mith and Adam, but AC 8 can be an alloy of Mith and Copper and AC 9 an alloy of Adam and Iron.  For all you metalurgists (or however its spelt) yes, these aloys may not be accurate but you see my point.  For mid level AC 4 is pure steel, AC 5 is Steel\Gold and AC 6 could be Gold\silver with steel. (I would like see gold gone from materialsas well, but it’s shiney)

going from 12-9 materials, and introducing alloys would use up a lot more of the lower end stuff making it more valuable in the long run.

I also liked the idea of smleters selling to cities for guards and what not, but I think the restriction should be that the smelter needs to be in that city to sell to it.

anyway, my 2 Canadian cents which isworth more now than it has been in a while

I was actually mistaken, there are 13 materials! If you include the 0 as being a number/material…

Nice points Tarmon, I like the metallurgist idea. But yeah, there are too many metals, and seriously speaking, why not go back to store bought masks, and being able to make different types of higher AC to compliment the level 25+ aristos?

Just some more food for thought. Also, maybe some higher WC weps...but get rid of that damn vault!

Im hurt tarmon..
Eidolon Warlords has med ac4,6,8,9

To comfort you Lynis, with my medium cleric, I am well aware of the fine smithing at your establishment.

Seems that I am gonna have to smack someone for anti-vault comments. 

I have had half a dozen friends that I introduced to MD back when that were appalled there was no way to save equipment.  If we had the vault back then we could have expanded the player base more.  And these guys still play other text-based muds. 

The vault is good...long live the vault!  It is the greatest thing to combat the real world time cronstraints that many of us possess now.  Plus it is just a cool “perk” that the wizzes have added for us.

actually lynis, I mentioned your medium chain mail, it was the only guild I found that had any